Hello
As well as getting started on drains, I'd be interested in having a chat with UE folk about their experiences and motivations. I understand the Clan have a media ban in place but it seems UEGA is a bit of a broad church - my apologies if I'm stepping on any toes. If you're interested feel free to chuck a PM my way.
Nice to meet you all :-)
all the trucks unload beyond the gopher holes
You're right. We are a friendly, open bunch here.
The CC is more like a movement, or religion of sorts, which you seem to have to be selected for.
UEGA is just a group of people who like doing stuff!
Thumbs up!Nuggs wrote:Welcome, nice to have you on the forum!
You're right. We are a friendly, open bunch here.
The CC is more like a movement, or religion of sorts, which you seem to have to be selected for.
UEGA is just a group of people who like doing stuff!
I've taken to all anything exploration related 'cool s***'. As in: "Hey man, you wanna go do some cool s*** tonight?"
A radio piece. I reckon there's a lot could be done with the sounds of the underground: urbex types tend to be big personalities, it's also a relatively anonymous medium for those with privacy concerns. A lot of the previous coverage I've seen was quite alarmist when it comes to CC/UE and that's not at all my view - you all have a different relationship with the built environment. An appreciation, an altered perspective to those who never look down or up or think about what they're walking over. That or you all like the sheer badassery of going places you're not allowed to go. It's the Constitution, it's Mabo, it's the vibe.Poker wrote:You writing a book or an article on the subject?
Thought best to be forthright about it so nobody gets surprised if I show up somewhere with a recorder. If anyone's interested in having a chat about this sort of stuff, do let me know.
all the trucks unload beyond the gopher holes
Underground locations do make weird noises, takes time to get used to 'em. The sound from below of a car wheel suddenly pounding on a manhole cover still scares the s*** of me sometimes.
Only way you're likely to get any noses out of joint is by giving away locations/Identities - you seem to already have a pretty good understanding of how it all works though.
If you're ever up Brisbane way I'd be more than happy to talk about my experiences etc, and I'm sure others would too.
Good luck with the project, It certainly sounds interesting.
chuck me a PM whenever you're up for something
Spades
Anyways, welcome to UEGA! You sure sound like an interesting person, particularly one with a non-sensationalised media's view of urbex.
Only problem with publicizing our hobby (& it is a major one) is that the authorities see it as us rubbing it in their faces, & they typically react by making access for us harder. And the part that sux is that there is no apparent gain at all for the general exploring community (us). This goes for mainstream media articles (radio, TV, magazine, etc), personal blogs & galleries (FB, Flickr, Instagram, etc), & even just bragging to your mate who tells somebody else & so on. Personal glory is understandable, but why people confess to committing crimes openly still puzzles me.
Over the years, access to many good locations has been lost because of blabber mouths, media whores, & people who just get too excited & want to tell the whole world how cool they are. And it is this that makes our hobby get harder by the day. And let's face it, at the end of the day, no matter how trivial it is, our hobby involves breaking the law, advertising the fact is unproductive. So why give 'the man' a leg up? Isn't it better to be stealthy, leave no trace of your presence, & do the 'take only pix & leave only footprints' thing? It would sure make it easier for the rest of us, that's for sure.
/rant
It's not quite that simple.Nuggs wrote:Welcome, nice to have you on the forum!
You're right. We are a friendly, open bunch here.
The CC is more like a movement, or religion of sorts, which you seem to have to be selected for.
UEGA is just a group of people who like doing stuff!
There are huge bonuses of having a small group like UEGA however the Clan has hundreds of members and associates. If it was a free-for-all... well it just wouldn't work. Keep in mind that Cave Clan has expos on every weekend and it's very social.
Most of the Code of Ethics that we follow is commonsense anyway.
As far media goes (& everyone in the Clan knows what I'm about to write) - the reason this scene grew so fast in Australia is totally thanks to the media. Nearly all the great explorers from the 80s and 90s found about us through the media. Our stickers (with our PO Box on them) didn't start working until people knew who we were. We found hundreds of locations through this procedure.
It's a fact.
I was involved in over a hundred media interviews and NEVER gave away a location.
When we did get hassled by police they would just say, "oh, you're Cave Clan" and let us go.
Sydney had problems because they invited too many people along including newbies.
Having said that, the media is not needed anymore (for what we used it for).
The Net has taken it's place and caused a thousand times the problems that media has - media articles would fade into insignificance almost right away - not stuff on the net. Now days even the media gets saved on the Net.
We have a media ban for good reasons.
If you decide to do something then it won't be popular with much of the scene but please, if you must do it then take them to somewhere that isn't dodgy and make sure you know what you're going to say - and more importantly what you're NOT going to say.
Or just don't do it.
That's my 2 Bob anyway.
Last edited by dougo on 09 Jun 2013, 8:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
While I agree with you mostly Poker, I (here comes the self-interest bit) don't agree about personal photo galleries. I'm a photographer first and an explorer second. I love the feeling I get from an expo, it's both the most calming and exhilarating thing I've done in years. However for me an expo isn't just about being there, it's also making my art - photography. Like the serial killers you see in the shitty movies, I get off on reliving my experiences with photosPoker wrote:Yeah I think I read it wrong, gotta stay off the scotch.
Only problem with publicizing our hobby (& it is a major one) is that the authorities see it as us rubbing it in their faces, & they typically react by making access for us harder. And the part that sux is that there is no apparent gain at all for the general exploring community (us). This goes for mainstream media articles (radio, TV, magazine, etc), personal blogs & galleries (FB, Flickr, Instagram, etc), & even just bragging to your mate who tells somebody else & so on. Personal glory is understandable, but why people confess to committing crimes openly still puzzles me.
Over the years, access to many good locations has been lost because of blabber mouths, media whores, & people who just get too excited & want to tell the whole world how cool they are. And it is this that makes our hobby get harder by the day. And let's face it, at the end of the day, no matter how trivial it is, our hobby involves breaking the law, advertising the fact is unproductive. So why give 'the man' a leg up? Isn't it better to be stealthy, leave no trace of your presence, & do the 'take only pix & leave only footprints' thing? It would sure make it easier for the rest of us, that's for sure.
/rant
I also like to share my photography. This is not to get 'legend points' or whatever, as I'm just as interested in sharing photos of non-urbex stuff too. I just don't get much of a chance to do decent shoots of other stuff as I live in the inner city. I love people viewing my work and I love the fact that people find the subject matter fascinating. This is also why I take the time to make my shots look interesting, both onsite and at home when I'm processing.
All that said, I make sure that I never share locations publicly, in writing or in my photos (though a clever person might be able to deduce a few things if they try hard enough). I'd never, say put up a shot of the entrance to a drain/abando/whatever. The exception to this is after they have either been torn down, or finished in the case of constructions.
I think that there is a pretty clear delineation between the folks that want 'legend point', spam their explores on facebook with the address and some shitty ass photos and the folks that love photography and exploring, but also give it the respect of not giving away information etc.
/counter rant
Pix & urbex are very compatible, especially when people have your attitude. In fact, most urban explorers are also amateur photographers, & some of the most creative pictures I have ever seen where taken in an urbex setting. Displaying a top pic publicly is totally acceptable, but as you say, it is best done without particularly showing where it was taken, & how you got there. It's just that some people just want to big note, & nobody likes a show-off.mpi wrote:While I agree with you mostly Poker, I (here comes the self-interest bit) don't agree about personal photo galleries. I'm a photographer first and an explorer second. I love the feeling I get from an expo, it's both the most calming and exhilarating thing I've done in years. However for me an expo isn't just about being there, it's also making my art - photography. Like the serial killers you see in the shitty movies, I get off on reliving my experiences with photosPoker wrote:Yeah I think I read it wrong, gotta stay off the scotch.
Only problem with publicizing our hobby (& it is a major one) is that the authorities see it as us rubbing it in their faces, & they typically react by making access for us harder. And the part that sux is that there is no apparent gain at all for the general exploring community (us). This goes for mainstream media articles (radio, TV, magazine, etc), personal blogs & galleries (FB, Flickr, Instagram, etc), & even just bragging to your mate who tells somebody else & so on. Personal glory is understandable, but why people confess to committing crimes openly still puzzles me.
Over the years, access to many good locations has been lost because of blabber mouths, media whores, & people who just get too excited & want to tell the whole world how cool they are. And it is this that makes our hobby get harder by the day. And let's face it, at the end of the day, no matter how trivial it is, our hobby involves breaking the law, advertising the fact is unproductive. So why give 'the man' a leg up? Isn't it better to be stealthy, leave no trace of your presence, & do the 'take only pix & leave only footprints' thing? It would sure make it easier for the rest of us, that's for sure.
/rant
I also like to share my photography. This is not to get 'legend points' or whatever, as I'm just as interested in sharing photos of non-urbex stuff too. I just don't get much of a chance to do decent shoots of other stuff as I live in the inner city. I love people viewing my work and I love the fact that people find the subject matter fascinating. This is also why I take the time to make my shots look interesting, both onsite and at home when I'm processing.
All that said, I make sure that I never share locations publicly, in writing or in my photos (though a clever person might be able to deduce a few things if they try hard enough). I'd never, say put up a shot of the entrance to a drain/abando/whatever. The exception to this is after they have either been torn down, or finished in the case of constructions.
I think that there is a pretty clear delineation between the folks that want 'legend point', spam their explores on facebook with the address and some shitty ass photos and the folks that love photography and exploring, but also give it the respect of not giving away information etc.
/counter rant
I believe some camera's have a GPS or memory system that can "store" the location of where the photo has been taken and when you upload the photo, this information can sometimes be uploaded too. Then all someone has to do is download the photo or view it's info to figure out where the location of the place is. Not entirely sure, but I know this is the case with iPhone 4s' and later.mpi wrote:Poker wrote:Yeah I think I read it wrong, gotta stay off the scotch.
Only problem with publicizing our hobby (& it is a major one) is that the authorities see it as us rubbing it in their faces, & they typically react by making access for us harder. And the part that sux is that there is no apparent gain at all for the general exploring community (us). This goes for mainstream media articles (radio, TV, magazine, etc), personal blogs & galleries (FB, Flickr, Instagram, etc), & even just bragging to your mate who tells somebody else & so on. Personal glory is understandable, but why people confess to committing crimes openly still puzzles me.
Over the years, access to many good locations has been lost because of blabber mouths, media whores, & people who just get too excited & want to tell the whole world how cool they are. And it is this that makes our hobby get harder by the day. And let's face it, at the end of the day, no matter how trivial it is, our hobby involves breaking the law, advertising the fact is unproductive. So why give 'the man' a leg up? Isn't it better to be stealthy, leave no trace of your presence, & do the 'take only pix & leave only footprints' thing? It would sure make it easier for the rest of us, that's for sure.
/rant
All that said, I make sure that I never share locations publicly, in writing or in my photos (though a clever person might be able to deduce a few things if they try hard enough). I'd never, say put up a shot of the entrance to a drain/abando/whatever. The exception to this is after they have either been torn down, or finished in the case of constructions.
/counter rant
Spades
^ Thischrisyelroy wrote:I believe some camera's have a GPS or memory system that can "store" the location of where the photo has been taken and when you upload the photo, this information can sometimes be uploaded too. Then all someone has to do is download the photo or view it's info to figure out where the location of the place is. Not entirely sure, but I know this is the case with iPhone 4s' and later.
Exfil pic data is dangerous for our hobby.
Blakjak of the Sydney branch of the Cave Clan.
Otherwise you can also turn off GPS settings on your phone or camera.
Scarecrow of the Sydney branch of the Cave Clan.