I think Echo's approach is right
Treating noobs badly is going to see this forum shrink and die. Treating them nicely and doing our best to answer questions could see this forum grow. Also, why is there such secrecy about sharing locations like drains? I get buildings, because people could vandalize them. But drains?
Discuss.
Yes indeedParamecium wrote: ↑04 Aug 2023, 8:30 pmI can only speak for myself but obviously going in drains is illegal, we do so at our own risk... On the net info like locations could fall into anyone's hands - or any age group. If someone got injured or died the person who posted locations would be in a precarious position with authorities. No one knows exactly who they are talking to on the net and what experience/smarts they have.
Oh. s***. I never thought of that.Paramecium wrote: ↑04 Aug 2023, 8:30 pmI can only speak for myself but obviously going in drains is illegal, we do so at our own risk... On the net info like locations could fall into anyone's hands - or any age group. If someone got injured or died the person who posted locations would be in a precarious position with authorities. No one knows exactly who they are talking to on the net and what experience/smarts they have.
You don't rate on our triage system. Even if publishing locations of storm water drains was illegal, which it isn't, we have other things to do that are more pressing than worrying about a bunch of people publishing that. The problem is when people go into drains and injure themselves and we need to rescue them. But people, kids, adults and other idiots go into drains anyway, probably fairly often. I guess most of the time it doesn't matter. If we don't see you, we don't worry about you.
I once saw some teens going into a drain and I yelled at them "Hey are you urban explorers?" They said yeah, so I asked "Did ya check the weather forecast?" They said yeah again so I said "Okay then. Don't make us come rescue you for getting injured in there."
They're a pretty cool cop.
They also mentioned they used to monitor urban explorers more closely, but again, have more important things to do. They said they knew a member of the AFP who was into urban exploration and occasionally still drain explored.
So TL:DR - The cops have other stuff to do and can't be bothered about us as long as we fly under the radar and don't cause them to have to come rescue us.
I don't think that the fact that people could injure themselves going in drains and the blame lying on you afterwards is a valid point, the internet is a place in which information on much more harmful things is readily avaliable. I think this is just another reason to gatekeep and preserve this as a small community. As someone who has gotten almost all of their drain locations online, i have returned the favour and spread locations to people in group chats and in comments sections when asked. I would love for the draining community to grow, I don't know about all OG cave clan members and other old drainers but I don't see any benefit in gatekeeping locations. And to reinstate, no, I don't think the blame lies on you if a kid finds the location of a drain online, goes in it and gets injured.Paramecium wrote: ↑04 Aug 2023, 8:30 pmI can only speak for myself but obviously going in drains is illegal, we do so at our own risk... On the net info like locations could fall into anyone's hands - or any age group. If someone got injured or died the person who posted locations would be in a precarious position with authorities. No one knows exactly who they are talking to on the net and what experience/smarts they have.
urbex and flossing are the keys to a happy life
You're free to do as you wish, it's not only the legal aspect - the mental one too... I personally wouldn't want to know I was in any way to blame if something happened and have that hanging over my head._pHAntom wrote: ↑27 Aug 2023, 9:50 pmI don't think that the fact that people could injure themselves going in drains and the blame lying on you afterwards is a valid point, the internet is a place in which information on much more harmful things is readily avaliable. I think this is just another reason to gatekeep and preserve this as a small community. As someone who has gotten almost all of their drain locations online, i have returned the favour and spread locations to people in group chats and in comments sections when asked. I would love for the draining community to grow, I don't know about all OG cave clan members and other old drainers but I don't see any benefit in gatekeeping locations. And to reinstate, no, I don't think the blame lies on you if a kid finds the location of a drain online, goes in it and gets injured.Paramecium wrote: ↑04 Aug 2023, 8:30 pmI can only speak for myself but obviously going in drains is illegal, we do so at our own risk... On the net info like locations could fall into anyone's hands - or any age group. If someone got injured or died the person who posted locations would be in a precarious position with authorities. No one knows exactly who they are talking to on the net and what experience/smarts they have.
urbex and flossing are the keys to a happy life
A broken hearted parent will usually look into liability.Paramecium wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 3:39 amI personally wouldn't want to know I was in any way to blame if something happened and have that hanging over my head.
Yeah, I agree with you. I think that old drainers seems to gatekeep way too much. Like hording information some how makes them valuable. No, it just makes them annoying. I've also found lots of information online and happy to share as well. f*** the gatekeeping._pHAntom wrote: ↑27 Aug 2023, 9:50 pmI don't think that the fact that people could injure themselves going in drains and the blame lying on you afterwards is a valid point, the internet is a place in which information on much more harmful things is readily avaliable. I think this is just another reason to gatekeep and preserve this as a small community. As someone who has gotten almost all of their drain locations online, i have returned the favour and spread locations to people in group chats and in comments sections when asked. I would love for the draining community to grow, I don't know about all OG cave clan members and other old drainers but I don't see any benefit in gatekeeping locations. And to reinstate, no, I don't think the blame lies on you if a kid finds the location of a drain online, goes in it and gets injured.Paramecium wrote: ↑04 Aug 2023, 8:30 pmI can only speak for myself but obviously going in drains is illegal, we do so at our own risk... On the net info like locations could fall into anyone's hands - or any age group. If someone got injured or died the person who posted locations would be in a precarious position with authorities. No one knows exactly who they are talking to on the net and what experience/smarts they have.
Well I've had Cave Clan members offer to sell me location sheets for drains. I ended up buying some about 3 months ago. I don't see a big difference between selling a location sheet via email to someone you have never met, and just putting it online in a forum like this. Other than selling it is doing it for the dollars.ironfistdoug wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 3:37 pmA broken hearted parent will usually look into liability.Paramecium wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 3:39 amI personally wouldn't want to know I was in any way to blame if something happened and have that hanging over my head.
that is a good point, it is quite hypocritical to say that you couldn't put it online because if someone finds it they could die, and then turning around and selling location sheets. drains are everywhere, in some ways the larger ones are safer and also, I doubt they made sure that you were over 18 before selling them to you. In some ways its worse if you sell someone a sheet and then they die from that, rather than just reading a forum post onlineParamecium wrote: ↑28 Aug 2023, 3:39 am
Well I've had Cave Clan members offer to sell me location sheets for drains. I ended up buying some about 3 months ago. I don't see a big difference between selling a location sheet via email to someone you have never met, and just putting it online in a forum like this. Other than selling it is doing it for the dollars.
urbex and flossing are the keys to a happy life
Everyone is entitled to their own view/s, they were just mine... whoops i quoted the wrong person! the quite was meant to be for ImGladImNotA, sorry about thatParamecium wrote: ↑30 Aug 2023, 2:19 pmI think you have your people mixed up! I was replying to a quote...
urbex and flossing are the keys to a happy life
I reckon you're missing out if you don't find them yourselves.
You have to know the right areas though, more modern suburban areas tend to have very small impossible to enter drains, I think we need to have a better attitude to newer drainers. I am new too im obviously not a vet but I know locations and I am willing to share them. Legendary drains such as fortress and swoo are completely fine to share as they are great introductions. Searching for drains in your area is extremely rewarding yes, but I do believe that all drainers should have been to the same famous onesironfistdoug wrote: ↑31 Aug 2023, 3:51 pmIn my opinion, searching for drains is way more rewarding that getting a list given to you on a silver platter.
I reckon you're missing out if you don't find them yourselves.
urbex and flossing are the keys to a happy life
I found a couple of hundred drains when there was no urbex scene or internet I was the biggest n00b ever
I thank my lucky stars that I got to spend all those years looking for drains (and finding nothing most of the time) rather than having a layer on Google Maps showing me every drain.
I tend to tell people where some drains are if they seem sensible, but I would never encourage a n00b to go to Fortress.
Once again, just my opinion.
Stay safe.
would you recommend?
I respect your opinion, but I'm young. I'm from the generation that has the greatest source of information ever known to humans at our finger tips. We want to know and we want to know now. You're talking about the generation that would rather send a drone to the top of Everest to catch some pics for the grams. We are the way of the future. We want everything, everywhere all the tie and not just as a movie. Gatekeeping just does not cut it any more. There's no point spending a hundred years finding stuff that's already been found.ironfistdoug wrote: ↑01 Sep 2023, 9:54 amYeah, each to their own.
I found a couple of hundred drains when there was no urbex scene or internet I was the biggest n00b ever
I thank my lucky stars that I got to spend all those years looking for drains (and finding nothing most of the time) rather than having a layer on Google Maps showing me every drain.
I tend to tell people where some drains are if they seem sensible, but I would never encourage a n00b to go to Fortress.
Once again, just my opinion.
Stay safe.
Sorry it's hard to explain while being respectful. But your way of thinking has been superceded by a new way that is different, as I am sure my way of thinking will be replaced when I am old. Each subsequent generation will learn new things and piss off the generation before.
Christ I'm good at writing s*** some days.
Yes. Would definitely recommend.
This is what made Chris McCandless / Alex Supertramp so great. When all was explored, he threw away the map and explored anyway! Do this too. Travel, explore, discover, find. Then report back what you found.