The 2 way Radio Thread....

Bangers · 20 Jul 2013, 9:02 pm

Comments on a recent thread suggest to me that there's at least a few of us that like, have been involved with, or know a thing or 2 about CB, Broadcast, and/or Amateur radio's, so, let's talk about radio!

Starting question, What radio gear do you use (or have you used)? Let's talk about Radio.....

Barnz · 20 Jul 2013, 11:53 pm

Ive got a scanner, its amusing to listen to on a fri/sat night. I would like to go digital oneday.

Moose · 21 Jul 2013, 5:14 am

Barnz wrote:Ive got a scanner, its amusing to listen to on a fri/sat night. I would like to go digital oneday.

Digital police is encrypted, remember

I have:
2 x IC400 pro (DIY repeater project underway)
GME TX6100
GME TX3510
GME TX3540
GME TX4500
Icom IC41S
Icom IC F4163 450-520Mhz
Standard Horizon HX280S VHF marine

Moose · 21 Jul 2013, 5:18 am

Bangers wrote:
Starting question, What radio gear do you use (or have you used)? Let's talk about Radio.....

My day job has me sitting at a radio console all day. It's a hell of a lot more complicated then I understand but it's all commercial rackmount Motorola gear connected via ACOM through PTSN to around 42 repeaters + 13 local radios and 9 ROIP consoles that supplement our other gear as backups.

Edit: we also have ROIP and Sat links with equipment from Coolangatta to Noosa and out to Toowoomba (I'm in Brisbane)

Edit 2: we have 6 XTS2500's as our backup backup backup radios

Edit 3: I'm under the impression that our 2500's will soon be replaced with APX6000's

Barnz · 21 Jul 2013, 11:08 am

I wasnt aware digital was encrypted, that explains why the digital scanner im looking at is so cheap(385$)

Bangers · 21 Jul 2013, 11:54 am

That's awesome Moose, that's quite a significant network you're attending to there, i'd love a job like that, although it's hard to say whether i'd actually be any good at it..

I'm more of a technical person, worked in the industry for a while as a Rigger, but prefer to do it all as a hobby these days.

The current setup here consists of-

Icom IC703 and IC2720H
GME TX4400 and TX 3420 UHF
Various Linear amplifiers and antennas being used here, plus a mountain of stuff in storage, heaps of commercial gear, including small TV and FM transmitters

Also have modified an 011 Uniden as a receiver for a CB repeater, added in a home built morse id, and grafted it all together to plug into a GME as the transmitter. Sounds a bit dodgy trying to explain it, but it works really well when up and running, nobody would pick it's home built.

I'm considering getting a HAM licence, could be good fun...

Has anyone else come across the internet linked CB system that seems to connect dozens of places in Australia and the world?

Scanning in WA is getting harder with the digital age, although with a bit of patience some interesting listening can be found...

Bangers · 21 Jul 2013, 12:01 pm

Barnz wrote:I wasnt aware digital was encrypted, that explains why the digital scanner im looking at is so cheap(385$)

Yeah their marketing is a bit of a trap, "Digital" seems to only refer to the display or something, apparently the tech guys for some of the police systems round the country don't even know the exact mode of encryption...

At the same time, some of the country cops seem to still use analogue comms, digital seems to be more of a big city thing...

Moose · 21 Jul 2013, 5:22 pm

Barnz wrote:I wasnt aware digital was encrypted, that explains why the digital scanner im looking at is so cheap(385$)

Not all digital is encrypted (it technically doesn't have to be), but you will find the majority of what is digital IS encrypted (because that is one of its main benefits, along with audio quality and the ability to send low speed data)

I too want a digital scanner but in struggling to justify it, especially considering what I have access to at work

There are also many different kinds of digital radio
P25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_25
TETRA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio
D-STAR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-STAR

Moose · 21 Jul 2013, 5:33 pm

Bangers wrote:That's awesome Moose, that's quite a significant network you're attending to there, i'd love a job like that, although it's hard to say whether i'd actually be any good at it.. I'm more of a technical person, worked in the industry for a while as a Rigger, but prefer to do it all as a hobby these days.

The current setup here consists of-

Icom IC703 and IC2720H
GME TX4400 and TX 3420 UHF
Various Linear amplifiers and antennas being used here, plus a mountain of stuff in storage, heaps of commercial gear, including small TV and FM transmitters

Also have modified an 011 Uniden as a receiver for a CB repeater, added in a home built morse id, and grafted it all together to plug into a GME as the transmitter. Sounds a bit dodgy trying to explain it, but it works really well when up and running, nobody would pick it's home built.

I'm considering getting a HAM licence, could be good fun...

Has anyone else come across the internet linked CB system that seems to connect dozens of places in Australia and the world?

Scanning in WA is getting harder with the digital age, although with a bit of patience some interesting listening can be found...

I got into it because of my interest in scanning - I definitely have a technical interest in it (moreso then anyone else in the place) but since its not really 'my place' to understand how it works I have to ask the techs when they come around every weeks. At the moment my gear is pretty much all UHF CB because its relatively cheap, you don't need to be licensed and there is quite a large user base. I've really enjoyed getting the IC400 Pros into a repeater config (not that it's hard anyway

) but I'm struggling with the idea of linking in morse or voice ID. The only reason I want to do it though is because without it I can't license it and eventually I want it all up and running legit + licensed with the ACMA. I've spent some time over the last few months trying to perfect antenna configs too (no way I can afford a duplexer for 750khz split but I'm not having a lot of luck with that (I need to get new antennas I think)

Bangers · 21 Jul 2013, 7:47 pm

Moose wrote:I'm struggling with the idea of linking in morse or voice ID. The only reason I want to do it though is because without it I can't license it and eventually I want it all up and running legit + licensed with the ACMA. I've spent some time over the last few months trying to perfect antenna configs too (no way I can afford a duplexer for 750khz split but I'm not having a lot of luck with that (I need to get new antennas I think)

I'll get back to you regarding the best way to get an ID happening, One of the units I originally built from 3 Jaycar kits simply grafted into the audio lines between the two radio's (the one I built for a mate was actually running on a pair of 400's and went ok) BUT, there's a few cheaper and better ways of going about it in the form of simple kits from the US.

Regarding your antenna's, what antenna's are you trying to use - and how are they configured?

It's easy to avoid using a Diplexer, I'm guessing the problem you've encountered is probably intermod between the RX and TX, resulting in the repeater either staying keyed up or "chopping in and out" as it tries to stop transmitting?

Moose · 21 Jul 2013, 8:17 pm

Bangers wrote:
Moose wrote:I'm struggling with the idea of linking in morse or voice ID. The only reason I want to do it though is because without it I can't license it and eventually I want it all up and running legit + licensed with the ACMA. I've spent some time over the last few months trying to perfect antenna configs too (no way I can afford a duplexer for 750khz split but I'm not having a lot of luck with that (I need to get new antennas I think)
I'll get back to you regarding the best way to get an ID happening, One of the units I originally built from 3 Jaycar kits simply grafted into the audio lines between the two radio's (the one I built for a mate was actually running on a pair of 400's and went ok) BUT, there's a few cheaper and better ways of going about it in the form of simple kits from the US.

Regarding your antenna's, what antenna's are you trying to use - and how are they configured?

It's easy to avoid using a Diplexer, I'm guessing the problem you've encountered is probably intermod between the RX and TX, resulting in the repeater either staying keyed up or "chopping in and out" as it tries to stop transmitting?

The 400's are linked using the OPC617 serial cable, so I guess as long as you had the ID on a timer you could connect it into the TX radio through the serial cable. I hadnt thought about using Jaycar kits, and I havent really looked on ebay. I clearly need to do more research!

Re the antennas - I was using a Mobileone scanner antenna for RX (http://www.mobileone.com.au/antennas/br ... scatx.html) and a mobileone UFH 6dbi 2.5m away
Pic here http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/7182 ... 2at412.jpg

(that pole is 8m high and the white UHF base antenna is 2m long - bolted to my daughters cubby house)

The issue I have is obviously that the antennas need to be mounted vertically one on top of the other, I just need to do some testing in regards to spacing them.. I also think that I need to piss off the scanner antenna and get another UHF base antenna so I can use RG213 on it instead of the pissy 58 that comes with it

Its not that they stay keyed up, it works as it should - but you can definitely hear the static/noise from TX drowning out the RX. My set up works - but I know its not very effective and I want to make it better

Edit: Repeater pics:
Its not very neat but its all self contained in this weatherproof container.

Titan · 22 Jul 2013, 11:34 am

I just own a Uniden 40ch uhf hand held .5w unit

Would like a 1w unit someday if i have spare dosh. For now .5w will do.

Bangers · 23 Jul 2013, 10:20 pm

You've nailed it Moose, vertically stacked antenna's are the key... I'd suggest RX on top (a repeater should be able to receive at least as far as it can be heard), ideally at least 2m from tip of your lower antenna to base of the higher one, although success is possible with as little as half a metre depending on the reciever. Havn't got any pic's available of some of the different antenna configurations we used to run, but vertical antenna above folded dipoles always took the cake. The type of antenna really isn't critical at the end of the day...

That setup in the box is slick man, nothing wrong with that, you're well organized there and I can see a lot of thought has gone into your setup, I'm not that tidy!. And when I saw that I remember how we grafted in the home built ID unit (cost about $100), it was simply wired into a CAT5 style plug that was plugged into the mic socket of the transmitter, easy easy! Not a true repeater controller, but it spat out the ID every 5 mins as required, in saying that, I believe 400's can be programmed to time out....

Depending on your TX power, try a metre tip to base between antennas, close enough to directly vertically stacked, then go from there...

Cheers!

And, Titan, nothing wrong with a half watt, you're in the game, somebody will hear you mate, If I had any handheld's here, i'd send you a good one.

Bangers · 23 Jul 2013, 10:25 pm

Regarding coax, 213 should be fine for runs under 30m, we always used 450 or 550 Heliax, but that was simply because we were in the industry and had surplus cable and connectors that worked out cheaper than buying 213... Ask your tech's, they might be able to do you a good deal...

blakjak · 24 Jul 2013, 3:50 am

I have been using my trusty (imported) Icom IC-40s for a few years now, has never let me down, although the battery pack could be reconditioned.
I must admit that it's nowhere near as much fun since the Sydney metro cops switched to encrypted digital. I get the Hurstville repeater easily from Redfern.

Timon · 24 Jul 2013, 5:27 pm

Hey all

I have
3 xts3000's
2 Analog Sabers
1 Astro Saber
1 Wouxon duel band thingy
1 Maxon 800mhz radio for taking over radio links with (forget model number)
a bunch of old ex forestry philips vhf lowband portables
a Tait T700 vhf lowband ex National Parks
1 scout 100watt hf radio
a couple gm300 45watt uhf's
a gm950 uhf
a few M10 45watt UHF which i plan to use for repeaters at some stage
and whatever else is laying around in boxes that i forget about, lol

ALso, im now in Rural NSW have been for the past few years, cops out here have gone digital but are still not encrypted so that is good news.. so far!
some vhf lowband freqs still exist for the area i am in also and can receive them with the tait T700 with base antenna

Moose · 24 Jul 2013, 8:06 pm

Bangers wrote:You've nailed it Moose, vertically stacked antenna's are the key... I'd suggest RX on top (a repeater should be able to receive at least as far as it can be heard), ideally at least 2m from tip of your lower antenna to base of the higher one, although success is possible with as little as half a metre depending on the reciever. Havn't got any pic's available of some of the different antenna configurations we used to run, but vertical antenna above folded dipoles always took the cake. The type of antenna really isn't critical at the end of the day...

That setup in the box is slick man, nothing wrong with that, you're well organized there and I can see a lot of thought has gone into your setup, I'm not that tidy!. And when I saw that I remember how we grafted in the home built ID unit (cost about $100), it was simply wired into a CAT5 style plug that was plugged into the mic socket of the transmitter, easy easy! Not a true repeater controller, but it spat out the ID every 5 mins as required, in saying that, I believe 400's can be programmed to time out....

Depending on your TX power, try a metre tip to base between antennas, close enough to directly vertically stacked, then go from there...

Cheers!

I enquired about the cost of folded dipoles from a local guy in brisbane - $1300! I'd love to throw that kind of money at an antenna but the whole project cost me about that much :/

I'm curious about how you got your ID module working.. Of you have by links to the Jaycar parts you used or any schematics I'd be very grateful

I'm thinking of mounting both antennas on a j pole so they can be bolted exactly one on top of the other

Bangers · 24 Jul 2013, 9:32 pm

blakjak wrote:I have been using my trusty (imported) Icom IC-40s for a few years now, has never let me down, although the battery pack could be reconditioned.
I must admit that it's nowhere near as much fun since the Sydney metro cops switched to encrypted digital. I get the Hurstville repeater easily from Redfern.

With Icom's reputation, I expect that these would be a good radio, Didn't realize they made a dedicated CB handheld, I'm obviously a bit naieve

I read that these are capable of 20 extra channels, are these receive only channels or do they transmit as well?

Bangers · 24 Jul 2013, 9:48 pm

Timon wrote:Hey all

I have
3 xts3000's
2 Analog Sabers
1 Astro Saber
1 Wouxon duel band thingy
1 Maxon 800mhz radio for taking over radio links with (forget model number)
a bunch of old ex forestry philips vhf lowband portables
a Tait T700 vhf lowband ex National Parks
1 scout 100watt hf radio
a couple gm300 45watt uhf's
a gm950 uhf
a few M10 45watt UHF which i plan to use for repeaters at some stage
and whatever else is laying around in boxes that i forget about, lol

ALso, im now in Rural NSW have been for the past few years, cops out here have gone digital but are still not encrypted so that is good news.. so far!
some vhf lowband freqs still exist for the area i am in also and can receive them with the tait T700 with base antenna

Man, you've got some gear there, put's my collection here to shame, "he who dies with the most toys wins" Haha, The majority being commercial stuff, that's an awesome collection... Up until 2.5 years ago I used to listen to various regional Vic cops on several freq's about 163MHz (I think?) analogue, was always amusing on a Friday, Sat night, At that time it seemed that only the Melb and Geelong regions were encrypted. I recall being in southern NSW about 3 yrs ago listening to police on UHF, somewhere around 468MHz, maybe that's changed now...

I just thought! it would be nice to see some pic's from the top of that tower in your video!!

Bangers · 24 Jul 2013, 11:03 pm

[quote="Moose]I enquired about the cost of folded dipoles from a local guy in brisbane - $1300! I'd love to throw that kind of money at an antenna but the whole project cost me about that much :/

I'm curious about how you got your ID module working.. Of you have by links to the Jaycar parts you used or any schematics I'd be very grateful

I'm thinking of mounting both antennas on a j pole so they can be bolted exactly one on top of the other[/quote]

I'd work with what you've got for now, I couldn't justify spending that much either, check ebay though, there's a few on there from overseas, Polar Industries could probably do better than that too...

The ID module is a long story, I'd rather explain that one via PM some time soon.....

Timon · 25 Jul 2013, 2:34 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... ink:top:en

Had these in my watch list for a long time, funny to see HK is making mobile radios now, we all know they had been making cheap portables for a long time though.

This one is the cheapest i can find, and still does 45Watts and covers 400-490mhz, not to bad!
still tempted to get one, i would like a new base radio heh

The gm300 im using atm modded to 40 ch's is just not cutting it

and you can't get anymore then 40 chs out of em

blakjak · 29 Jul 2013, 11:18 pm

Bangers wrote:With Icom's reputation, I expect that these would be a good radio, Didn't realize they made a dedicated CB handheld, I'm obviously a bit naieve I read that these are capable of 20 extra channels, are these receive only channels or do they transmit as well?

You can program it to TX & receive on all freqs between 410 & 490 Mhz, including the 468 (Sydney metro).
Does the job well, but it's quite chunky, wouldn't mind something smaller.

Spades · 30 Jul 2013, 9:35 pm

wait, ppl still use radios..

but, internet

blakjak · 31 Jul 2013, 6:50 pm

Spades wrote:wait, ppl still use radios..

but, internet

The internet is not ideal for instant comms, & it almost always doesn't work undergorund & many other places we explore.

Nick · 01 Aug 2013, 5:52 am

Spades wrote:wait, ppl still use radios..

but, internet

Ain't no 3G in mines. Or up towers. Or offshore. Or in the bush. Plus, if everyone splits off front he group, you'd have to call each person individually etc, and it turns a multi-car road trip into a CONVOY.

We'll all be laughing and speaking in Half Duplex when the apocalypse comes!

If anyone is interested in getting their Amateur Radio License, let me know, I'll happily point you in the right direction, Standard License is easy, and it'll do great things for your sex life

Plus, with advanced, you can transmit @ 1kw. If that doesn't get the ladies, I don't know what will.

I've got a s*** ton of gear, most of it Motorola professional stuff, bits of P25 gear & some SDN, I can't find any photos right now, but for my exploring setup, it's all cheap Chinese stuff, and I love it:

So if you're like Spades is now, thinking "wow, I totally need to get my amateur radio on, who needs mobile phones!" here's the setup I've got for exploring:
2x Baofeng UV-5R (~$50 + Stupid large antenna)
My radio, "Dual Watch" so I can listen to the security company that guards the place we're exploring & listen & transmit on the channel we all use. (PM me if you want the frequencies used by security companies, as far as I've discovered they all transmit in the clear)
5x Baofeng BF-888 S ($19 each, delivered, with stealthy headset) - Used by everyone else, as they're simple, tough, and have a really nice clip.