Dealing with cops
Also, I go around with gloves, a torch and respirator. Is there any chance they'll think I'm burglar?
Stupidity helps you make the first step and sense gets you out alive.
If you act like a smart arse, they will treat you as such.
And yes, you look really sus with all that gear on!
Probably don't look like a burgular though, more like a terrorist ;)
AgreedNuggs wrote:Be respecful polite and honest.
If you act like a smart arse, they will treat you as such.
And yes, you look really sus with all that gear on!
Probably don't look like a burgular though, more like a terrorist
Nuggs wrote:Be respecful polite and honest.
If you act like a smart arse, they will treat you as such.
This works. I've had run ins in Melbourne CBD locations and just tell them the truth, with a half assed bag check they have let me go everytime.
+1Nuggs wrote:Probably don't look like a burgular though, more like a terrorist
Haha, I gotta share this (or have I done so already);
Hawkeye, Shoe and I went to explore that Wisdom place. He started putting on his gear before we went in, right in the open.
A family car drove pass and the mother was all wide-eyed. Stupidity helps you make the first step and sense gets you out alive.
Happens to me all the time, It's annoying right!!?Shoe wrote:She saw how buff I was underneath my clothes and thought about cheating on her husband.
Shoe wrote:She saw how buff I was underneath my clothes and thought about cheating on her husband.
So funny. It was dark and we had our torches on, all black and packs with us. Was awesome.
First thing she said was "Holy Jesus, how long have you been down there" like we had been living in there for years.
HAHA
LIKEsmitten wrote:Coming out of fortress once adm and I scared the life out of an old lady. We popped out right as she was walking past.
So funny. It was dark and we had our torches on, all black and packs with us. Was awesome.
First thing she said was "Holy Jesus, how long have you been down there" like we had been living in there for years.
HAHA
Was I with you that time?smitten wrote:Coming out of fortress once adm and I scared the life out of an old lady. We popped out right as she was walking past.
So funny. It was dark and we had our torches on, all black and packs with us. Was awesome.
First thing she said was "Holy Jesus, how long have you been down there" like we had been living in there for years.
HAHA
Stupidity helps you make the first step and sense gets you out alive.
2tung wrote:Nuggs wrote:Be respecful polite and honest.
If you act like a smart arse, they will treat you as such.
This works. I've had run ins in Melbourne CBD locations and just tell them the truth, with a half assed bag check they have let me go everytime.
Be very polite towards them, maintain eye contact and KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. Only in certain cases to police officers actually have the right to check your bag. Say to them as politely as possible "Do u have the right to be doing this without a search warrant?" Most of the time they say no- I was riding without a helmet once and was stopped, they asked if I had a helmet and I said in my bag, and they said "could we see your bag" and I dropped that line and they couldn't search my bag, and thus couldn't fine me
Always tell the truth tho if you are not a million percent sure of your rights or if u know you are cornered. Most of them turn out to be top blokes and if u have committed a crime they will make things less difficult for u (say not pressing for maximum charge, or generally not swearing at u and calling you a dickniggle c*** bum)
Spades
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahaha I know that feeling.... You feel like a boss ahaha... I popped a hole right in the middle of suburban Zetland (emergency), outside a restaurant, and you know how heavy those things are :p once we put it back everyone started clapping us!! We had head torches, we were drenched and completely covered in all sorts of s***. We then headed straight to the nearest Maccas.Shoe wrote:Was I with you that time?smitten wrote:Coming out of fortress once adm and I scared the life out of an old lady. We popped out right as she was walking past.
So funny. It was dark and we had our torches on, all black and packs with us. Was awesome.
First thing she said was "Holy Jesus, how long have you been down there" like we had been living in there for years.
HAHA
Spades
Serious? And did they fine you? I work with a few ex cops and current cops and I guarantee if you said that to them they would be writing a fine before you finished the sentence.chrisyelroy wrote:2tung wrote:Nuggs wrote:Be respecful polite and honest.
If you act like a smart arse, they will treat you as such.
This works. I've had run ins in Melbourne CBD locations and just tell them the truth, with a half assed bag check they have let me go everytime.
Be very polite towards them, maintain eye contact and KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. Only in certain cases to police officers actually have the right to check your bag. Say to them as politely as possible "Do u have the right to be doing this without a search warrant?" Most of the time they say no- I was riding without a helmet once and was stopped, they asked if I had a helmet and I said in my bag, and they said "could we see your bag" and I dropped that line and they couldn't search my bag, and thus couldn't fine me
Always tell the truth tho if you are not a million percent sure of your rights or if u know you are cornered. Most of them turn out to be top blokes and if u have committed a crime they will make things less difficult for u (say not pressing for maximum charge, or generally not swearing at u and calling you a dickniggle **** bum)
I thought that if you are beleived to have committed a crime or they "have good reason", they are allowed to search your bag. Trespassing and possibly doing graff would be enough of a good reason.
http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/find-leg ... g-searched
The police officer does not need a warrant to search you in a public place if they reasonably suspect you:
have something that could be used to make graffiti, for example, spray paint, gouging tool or even a texta.
To search you for a graffiti offence, the police officer must reasonably believe you are 14 years or older. You must also be on or near public transport property or trespassing on someone else’s property.
From this, I infer that if you are found in an abandoned building or drain with lots of graff, then they have a good argument for checking your bag. Just knowing your rights doesnt mean they cannot seaarch you. The police not being familiar with this law, and you declining to have your bag searched may save you though.
Not swearing and being polite to anyone is always a good idea. Have been let off an unrelated driving offence where I would have lost my licence for 9mnts due to this.
The police officer can search anything you are carrying and the car you are in. They can search your car even if you are not in it.
While the search happens
Stay calm. Searches can be fast and confusing. If the police officer has the right to search you, you must let them do their job. The police can charge you with hindering police if the officer is allowed to search you and you try to stop it happening.
So using a lockpick and returning it to the car is a bad idea. Hide it near the exit and take on the way out when the coast is clear.
Secondly, if they do decide to search you, its best to let them do it even if you are unsure. If it is judged the search was illegal it will be thrown out in court. If it was judged as legal and you stopped it happening, you will be charged with hindering the cops.
Fyi, this advice is all direct from legal aid in Vic so may vary where you are.
Just to clarify, Do you mean there was something in your bag that perhaps you shouldn't have had and therefore didn't get fined for? or do you mean they didn't fine you for the helmet offence? Cos whether you have a helmet or not is entirely irrelevant, they can fine you if its on your head but not done up. Ditto for hanging off the handlebars, looped around your arm etc.. Not that they generally tend to care a great deal.chrisyelroy wrote: I was riding without a helmet once and was stopped, they asked if I had a helmet and I said in my bag, and they said "could we see your bag" and I dropped that line and they couldn't search my bag, and thus couldn't fine me
Agree the whole respect thing goes a very long way with cops, and I've got quite a few funny stories from over the years about interactions myself and mates have had with them. They do still find time for a laugh in their line of work. Always remember that these are people who are used to dealing with violent offenders, junkies, being spat on and abused by drunks etc...... Be polite and honest and you're probably the best 'customer' they've had all day. With a little luck you'll get treated as such.
Dynamite wrote:Just to clarify, Do you mean there was something in your bag that perhaps you shouldn't have had and therefore didn't get fined for? or do you mean they didn't fine you for the helmet offence? Cos whether you have a helmet or not is entirely irrelevant, they can fine you if its on your head but not done up. Ditto for hanging off the handlebars, looped around your arm etc.. Not that they generally tend to care a great deal.chrisyelroy wrote: I was riding without a helmet once and was stopped, they asked if I had a helmet and I said in my bag, and they said "could we see your bag" and I dropped that line and they couldn't search my bag, and thus couldn't fine me
Agree the whole respect thing goes a very long way with cops, and I've got quite a few funny stories from over the years about interactions myself and mates have had with them. They do still find time for a laugh in their line of work. Always remember that these are people who are used to dealing with violent offenders, junkies, being spat on and abused by drunks etc...... Be polite and honest and you're probably the best 'customer' they've had all day. With a little luck you'll get treated as such.
No if they searched my bag they would have found no helmet and i would have been fined. Leading on from that Benderz, its how you say it that will determine their initial attitude towards you. If you say it in a way that incites hostility and sounds "smartarse" then they will make you're life as horrible as they can, but if you say it in an unsure, almost naive way, they wont be as pissed off...
Also abandonments are generally hard to be caught by police officers...If there so happens to be one in there then that's just plain bad luck, but normally the only case you will ever interact with a police officer is if they see you entering or leaving the premises, which is bad timing, and also bad luck. If an officer is called as a neighbor had seen you enter or something like that (avoid this stage by careful planned entry) then normally its a huge ordeal to enter the property as they need a search warrant and have to go through a lengthy process with their senior supervisor. So then just WAIT IT OUT...So bottom line, you rarely encounter police officers in Abandonments (specifically). Drains are even easier and there's less to worry about....
BUT other methods and forms of security could and maybe (depending on what it is) are in place. I've been to places where there has been a watchman or a security guard. They can't legally by law detain you! So if you get caught, you simply walk away. Another MAJOR thing you should know is that BY LAW they have to tell you to leave before a police officer can arrest you. (the 'saving grace' often urbexers talk about). This applies for residential and industrial areas....high public access areas have special laws in place (9/11 and all). AND THAT's possibly the only time i have been deeply concerned for my legal reputation...Train stations, much like St James' or even the abandoned train stop in Woollahra , police will be literally a 4 minute call away if a city rail or even a concerned member of the public sees you, and just as benderz has said^ they have a right to search you, even without cause. These are just some of the special laws introduced in those areas. (they dont do this but) they can literally walk up to you if you are waiting for a train and search you if it pleases them. So if a city rail security member asks you to come with them (claiming they are just confirming your identity when they could be calling the cops (once again special laws, they aren't required by law to tell you they called them)), you are by law allowed to walk away. They actually don't have any power to detain you. Don't run as that's suspicious, but you can walk out. I don't advise it though...lol.
I don't know the law thoroughly but i do know those simply things that have kept me out of trouble. I also take precautions which have paid off..
1- never carry id, forget your wallet or something... (idk some people have different approaches but this works for me...gets to the lazy cops)
2-never carry tools when i go in. IF i bust a lock or gate etc (which is rare as i HATE doing that s***) , i do two trips, two days. One with the tools, one with none. Worth reading this
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lrc.nsf/pages/R71CHP2,
trespassing is defined as entering "in closed" areas without permission....if you didn't find it in closed...
it becomes very border line and iffy...it helps you out3- As everyone on this forum is saying....super polite, don't wear suspicious s***, and act natural. Bring a mate and have a conversation
4- avoid high public access areas (as much as possible for countless reasons)
and as i always say, police give less of s*** the further you move away from the CBD area of Sydney. Huge generalisation but if you pop a manhole on Oxford St, you will get in more trouble with the police there, than if it's the Fortress in Maroubra. Why? Cuz terrrrorrrissstttsssss and steeeffff.
anyway,
Spades
Pretty sure (for example), climbing over 5 fences of barbed wire with 'No Trespassing' signs stuck everywhere, denying it will probably just get you thrown into a mental hospital.
Just adding my own technique - if I'm somewhere high visible I wear a neon safety vest - you'd be amazed how many people thinking you are on official 'duty' if you're in a vest
Also, if I was ever pulled up, which I weirdly have never been - I can always declare that I had no intentions to do anything but take some photos - why else would I be high vis dressed in day glow?
safety first peeps!
Always carry a tripod. They're useful for smacking down junkies & scrappers.
I did this for a long time, it works quite well in very visible sites, but only really during the day, if you get caught, you just act calm and casual and say you were taking photos, and the sign said high vis vests must be worn.mrbolano wrote:some solid advice here.
Just adding my own technique - if I'm somewhere high visible I wear a neon safety vest - you'd be amazed how many people thinking you are on official 'duty' if you're in a vest
Also, if I was ever pulled up, which I weirdly have never been - I can always declare that I had no intentions to do anything but take some photos - why else would I be high vis dressed in day glow?
safety first peeps!
I've only been caught once using that tactic, in an abandoned nuclear power plant in Poland that was really exposed, (we had to climb under the fence and must have been spotted doing so) the guard apologized to us and opened the gates for us.
Ive also found that not having ID, and deleting your pix from your camera is also not wise. The cops will not let you go untill they know for sure who you are, and urban exploring type pix (not of graff!!!) just goes to rpove that you are not bullsh1tting.
So yeah, while out there do wh t you want, cause hell, raise Cain, burn the town down, but when you're caught, you're caughtm be nice. The cop who catches you is just doing his job, if you act nice, so will he (after a while lol).
Blakjak of the Sydney branch of the Cave Clan.
its only ilegal if you get caught
For some reason I don't think that'll work on a rooftop or a tunnel lol.hando wrote:when i was a young trouble maker and trespassing for all the wrong reason i used to carry a dog leash with me and if ever i got stopped i say i was walking my dog and he took off in here.
Blakjak of the Sydney branch of the Cave Clan.
blakjak wrote:My theory is do what you can to avoid detection and aprehention, but once you're caught, you're caught. It helps to be nice, give them the minimal information they seek (name, DOB, address, what you were doing here, etc), while avoiding giving them too much incriminating information (I do this often, I know hwo to get into blah blah blah, etc). Telling them that you and an urban explorer and you were just taking pix usually results in a simpe trespass infringement at worse (which is like getting caght spitting on a railway platform), it's not a criminal charge. If however you give them the shits by lying it will just take longer and the results will just be the same or worse, you may even be charged and have to go to court and stuff.
Ive also found that not having ID, and deleting your pix from your camera is also not wise. The cops will not let you go untill they know for sure who you are, and urban exploring type pix (not of graff!!!) just goes to rpove that you are not bullsh1tting.
So yeah, while out there do wh t you want, cause hell, raise Cain, burn the town down, but when you're caught, you're caughtm be nice. The cop who catches you is just doing his job, if you act nice, so will he (after a while lol).
wise words
Spades