Untitled by chrisyelroy, on Flickr
Untitled by chrisyelroy, on Flickr
Hey from Wolf- avid and experienced - Page 2
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Is that the deep level bunker back of a certin golf course? I went down there and found a frig living all the way down the bottom.
Nice pics, very nice.
PanicUE wrote:Is that the deep level bunker back of a certin golf course? I went down there and found a frig living all the way down the bottom.
Nice pics, very nice.
could be sir! except I went down and found it begins to get submerged, and so I went swimming and drowned etc (explained it earlier) ...what do u mean frig?
Spades
Always keen to hear from an experienced explorer
The rope you're using is not rated, and that biner you're using is not locking, also, you've got a single anchor setup, and no rope protector.
Rapping into places is awesome, as is ascending out of them, it just adds to the fun, but there is a real danger in it, abseiling is statistically the roping technique with the most fatalities,
If you're after more info, feel free to PM me, visit your local climbing gym or contact the Australian Speleological Federation, (caving is a great way to learn SRT & excellent fun)
I'd hate to see someone on this site in the paper as having died, even if you don't die, you're in places that are difficult to access, and aren't frequented regularly, imagine if something happened and you couldn't get out, and you got stuck down there...
1. The rope in the picture is of our shitty Bunnings rope but I have recently added a load bearing rope of a greater length to the list.Nick wrote:
The rope you're using is not rated, and that biner you're using is not locking, also, you've got a single anchor setup, and no rope protector.
Rapping into places is awesome, as is ascending out of them, it just adds to the fun, but there is a real danger in it, abseiling is statistically the roping technique with the most fatalities,
If you're after more info, feel free to PM me, visit your local climbing gym or contact the Australian Speleological Federation, (caving is a great way to learn SRT & excellent fun)
I'd hate to see someone on this site in the paper as having died, even if you don't die, you're in places that are difficult to access, and aren't frequented regularly, imagine if something happened and you couldn't get out, and you got stuck down there...
2. We have a selection of carabiners at disposal. The one here was load bearing up to 2.5T and the locking system wasn't a worry due to the small distance.(it was a test run) Now we use screw up carabiners.
3. The anchor setup was not ideal but we now have slings which can spread the weight. Due to the small descent I didn't think it was necessary, and the gate was bolted heavily.
4. I have started to use shirts to protect the rope if necessary.
5. Abseiling is not ideal and ATM I don't trust many people to do it by themselves, therefore I either use a rack or an atc to belay making it safer. Otherwise it is safe enough to do alpine butterfly knots up the rope in order to climb. This also means that everyone can go down and ascend easier.
There are systems that we can use if it is necessary to abseil such as the Prussik loop as an auto block but that only seems necessary for something like the funnel.
6. We always go in a group of at least three. That way if a person gets injured, one can stay with them and another can get help. We also all have mobile phones in the modern generation.
Also have you done much of this stuff? And where have you gotten the knowledge of roping?
Scarecrow wrote:1. The rope in the picture is of our shitty Bunnings rope but I have recently added a load bearing rope of a greater length to the list.Nick wrote:
The rope you're using is not rated, and that biner you're using is not locking, also, you've got a single anchor setup, and no rope protector.
Rapping into places is awesome, as is ascending out of them, it just adds to the fun, but there is a real danger in it, abseiling is statistically the roping technique with the most fatalities,
If you're after more info, feel free to PM me, visit your local climbing gym or contact the Australian Speleological Federation, (caving is a great way to learn SRT & excellent fun)
I'd hate to see someone on this site in the paper as having died, even if you don't die, you're in places that are difficult to access, and aren't frequented regularly, imagine if something happened and you couldn't get out, and you got stuck down there...
2. We have a selection of carabiners at disposal. The one here was load bearing up to 2.5T and the locking system wasn't a worry due to the small distance.(it was a test run) Now we use screw up carabiners.
3. The anchor setup was not ideal but we now have slings which can spread the weight. Due to the small descent I didn't think it was necessary, and the gate was bolted heavily.
4. I have started to use shirts to protect the rope if necessary.
5. Abseiling is not ideal and ATM I don't trust many people to do it by themselves, therefore I either use a rack or an atc to belay making it safer. Otherwise it is safe enough to do alpine butterfly knots up the rope in order to climb. This also means that everyone can go down and ascend easier.
There are systems that we can use if it is necessary to abseil such as the Prussik loop as an auto block but that only seems necessary for something like the funnel.
6. We always go in a group of at least three. That way if a person gets injured, one can stay with them and another can get help. We also all have mobile phones in the modern generation.
Also have you done much of this stuff? And where have you gotten the knowledge of roping?
Lol that day was a test run...we were lucky we brought rope at all. That's our s*** rope anyways...
Spades
Hey Scarecrow,Scarecrow wrote: 1. The rope in the picture is of our shitty Bunnings rope but I have recently added a load bearing rope of a greater length to the list.
2. We have a selection of carabiners at disposal. The one here was load bearing up to 2.5T and the locking system wasn't a worry due to the small distance.(it was a test run) Now we use screw up carabiners.
3. The anchor setup was not ideal but we now have slings which can spread the weight. Due to the small descent I didn't think it was necessary, and the gate was bolted heavily.
4. I have started to use shirts to protect the rope if necessary.
5. Abseiling is not ideal and ATM I don't trust many people to do it by themselves, therefore I either use a rack or an atc to belay making it safer. Otherwise it is safe enough to do alpine butterfly knots up the rope in order to climb. This also means that everyone can go down and ascend easier.
There are systems that we can use if it is necessary to abseil such as the Prussik loop as an auto block but that only seems necessary for something like the funnel.
6. We always go in a group of at least three. That way if a person gets injured, one can stay with them and another can get help. We also all have mobile phones in the modern generation.
Also have you done much of this stuff? And where have you gotten the knowledge of roping?
Great to hear your not still using that rope, one thing to be aware of is regardless of how the braking device you're using breaks, it's using Friction to slow you down, this means one of a few things - If you rap more than a few M your belay plate (ATC), Stop, Fig 8, whatever, will get hot, when we did Omega we were using Petzl Stops & belay plates and we were restricted from our speed (A slow rap is a boring one
) due to the fact if we went too fast we'd melt the rope, it's a real danger. What I'm getting out is splash out and by some Beal or Petzl static rope, around 10.4mm, will cost you around $4 per m or I can post you some of mine if it means you'll be safe. You'll also find it a darn site easier to get up. "Rated" rope means very little, you want certified climbing / rope work ropes. The forces put on a rope by abseiling and ascending are not that they'd get in normal use, so it's really important you use the right rope for the job.Good to hear you're using rope protectors, shirts will do the job, you'll save your life without knowing it.
ATCs are great (and cheap!). As for ascent, just remember your pussiks have to be made of rated rope to count, and visit your local climbing store, as well as having all types of awesome toys, try proper Ascenders, they make it so much easier and more fun. If you're serious about The Funnel, let me know, I'd rather you did it with us and all the right gear, than attempted it solo, we've just ordered a few hundred dollars more rope to do it safely.
I learned my stuff from climbing & caving, but also from my friends, one of whom was an industrial absailor and another is a climbing instructor. I'm dammed lucky to have people who really know what they're doing, and I get how easy it all looks, but just remember, one mistake, and you're quite literally dead.
Abseiling, for this purpose, is to get into a location so it doesn't really matter if you go slow.
Don't ascenders start to degrade your rope though with the teeth?
I have a store room which I can get lots of stuff so a list of the necessaties would be good. That is apart from what we have.
I have done a 100m abseil before and the rope was fine btw...
LOL!
A frog.
Happy to help out with your shopping list.Scarecrow wrote:We're you originally using a static or dynamic rope? We still use the other ropes but for different purposes.
Abseiling, for this purpose, is to get into a location so it doesn't really matter if you go slow.
Don't ascenders start to degrade your rope though with the teeth?
I have a store room which I can get lots of stuff so a list of the necessaties would be good. That is apart from what we have.
I have done a 100m abseil before and the rope was fine btw...
Some form of mechanical breaking device with a deadman switch, Petzl STOP is my recommendation, but anything out there that lets you let go of the device and stop (rather than let go and plummet) is good. If you're going to ascend in and out a caving harness or at least an additional chest harness make ascending a rope a lot easier, means you can have a handheld / legloop ascender and a chest ascender. Depending on what you're anchoring too also varies what you get for anchorage, steel screw-gate biners, snap gates / wire gates should only used as quickdraws in sport climbing, not for anything else, you'd be amazed at how much a rope can move / get out of, hence why a locking gate is so important. As are gloves, mine are fairly cheap, but make sure you get leather, synthetic is crap.
As for your 100m rap (Can I guess you did it from a certain dam in Tasmania? There are very few places that you can go for that long.) the rope doesn't get noticeably hot, it's the belay device that does. On a few occasions we've had to abseil when going into/out of places (Nothing more than 60m though, as rope starts to get damned heavy) and that belay plate can get so hot you can't touch it, during Omega we were using them to warm our numbing fingers. If you've ever seen how they cut rope, they do it with a hot knife pretty much.
If you want to learn more about really long abseils (aka a few dams around the place, The Funnel, that's about it) have a read of this: A guide to Long & Extreme Abseils.
Ascenders do damage your rope, everything you do damages your rope, it's just a matter of how long do you have it before you throw it out - which you do have to do. It hurts, but it's worth it for your safety. Most new ropes have indicators to let you know at what stage of it's life the rope is at. But I can't stress this enough, it has to be climbing rope, rated rope etc, is not designed for the stresses put on it, it's designed to have a breaking point of X on the major axis with a pinch not that evenly distributes the load. Also, I don't know how good your physics is, but a useful formula is f=ma - Force is mass multiplied by acceleration, so if I'm 60kg, going at a steady 3m/s down a rope and break hard, my rope, rated to 180Kg, just snapped. Trust me on that one, I've got a safety ticket in the matter of "how not to have things fall on you." And if your "rated" rope fails, you take it back and get a refund, whereas if you're using it for roping on, that place had better have a wheelchair ramp.
Feel free to keep asking me questions, but I've had very few occasions where I've needed to rapell for urbex (Although that's not to say I haven't when we haven't needed to either
) However I agree with you on that due to the fact that if there are any bends then the strength is decreased.
Personally I have never ascended a rope using mechanical items, the best I do is to tie knots.
The 100m abseil was in the watagan national park. It wasn't official site but it was possible.
Do you use an ATC to rap? I have only used that to belay. Have you used a rack, i havent really seen a J-rack yet.
I have a selection of pulleys at my disposal, anything I can use them for?
Have you ever used paracord for anything as well. i seem to have a bit lying around.
That is a pretty good document.
Last edited by Joker on 06 May 2013, 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Going 3m/s and stopping over a 1 second period means your acceleration (or in this case deceleration)isScarecrow wrote:According to the physics, f = m a : going a 3ms of. 60kg won't break. It is acceleration not v (ms). Therefore if you slow over a longer distance maximising the time taken (s) then there is a lower chance of the rope breaking.
Code: Select all
3ms * 60Kg = 180KN (roughly 180kg instantaneous force, assuming all is linear)
Pretty much like this, but just remember, most have a right way & a wrong way, make sure you get it the right way or it'll make things go bad...
As for pulleys, not really, useful for hauling, but again, only if they're rated.
Nick wrote:Going 3m/s and stopping over a 1 second period means your acceleration (or in this case deceleration)isScarecrow wrote:According to the physics, f = m a : going a 3ms of. 60kg won't break. It is acceleration not v (ms). Therefore if you slow over a longer distance maximising the time taken (s) then there is a lower chance of the rope breaking.I can't find any photos of me rapping on an ATC, but a belay plate works quite well as they're a damned sight safer / slower than a figure 8.Code: Select all
3ms * 60Kg = 180KN (roughly 180kg instantaneous force, assuming all is linear)
Pretty much like this, but just remember, most have a right way & a wrong way, make sure you get it the right way or it'll make things go bad...
As for pulleys, not really, useful for hauling, but again, only if they're rated.
lol it doesnt matter, the descent was legit 15m. I'd gladly put my life in the hands of Scarecrow anyday :p
Spades